|IFBB Warns Milos Sarcev? Page 2
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24. actually, this is one of the smartest things the IFBB has ever done. they (jm) didnit have to go public with it, but its still a good idea. nothing wrong with trying to save a guys' life.
25. (Quoting 22) I would think a dead BB doesn't have much in the way of future competititive plans. Huh
26. (Quoting 22) LOL!
27. (Quoting 22) nice to see some alertness out there . . . couldn't slip it by ya
(maybe I shouldn't have capitalized the words DIES and BARRED)
but, keep in mind, that being banned from bodybuilding forever includes the afterlife
. . . a lot of these guys are religious you know
28. (Quoting 23) ONE DAY ON AND NO MONEY HARDLY EVEN IF YOU WIN!!! COME ON GUYS WAKE UP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! THINK ABOUT IT! YOU CAN BE OUT OF SHAPE AND MAKE MILLIONS PLAYING BASEBALL!!!!!!!!!
29. (Quoting 28) yeah, but there's still that big plastic trophy
30. So the guy is ruining his already damaged health hoping to win something while at the same time people are screwing him because he s almost about to die?
31. It is required / by the IFBB standards/ from all of us (competitors) to be DEHYDRATED - if we want favorable placing at the shows.
So by the nature of our sport - in order to be competitive and meet judging criteria we (the competitors) have to put ourselves in danger and reach certain level of dehydration. Even a mild dehydration is serious medical condition... and severe dehydration (required in our sport) is potentially life threatening.
Throughout the years I've witnessed numerous competitors being taken to the hospital to be threated for this problem. Many of them are Mr. Olympia competitors! I would like to meet ONE competitor who never experienced muscle cramps caused by dehydration methods he (or she) used to prepare for the contest.
So, should we blame the athletes for getting dangerously dehydrated - if that is what is required from us? We all want to win...we are athletes and that is just normal sport's spirit.
I know that many of you are going to jump and say: it's not worth dying for - and I am first one to agree.
As I said - NUMEROUS competitors in last few decades experienced "close calls".
Some were taken off the stage (in prestigious IFBB competitions), some were rushed to the hospital immediately after, some were threated backstage... Examples are too numerous to mention and certainly (out of respect to those athletes) I would not mention the names.
I salute IFBB officials concern for us - they implemented diuretic testing back in 1996 with the purpose to save lives. However, they would sometimes schedule 4 shows in 4 days (on the European Tour) knowing that athletes would have no choice but stay dehydrated for prolonged period of the time - while at the same time traveling EVERY SINGLE DAY (with no sleep, rest and regular meals) with excessive amount of stress...
In this case - I had to respond to IFBB pro chairman's accusations who called me responsible for something I had nothing to do with.
It just happens that it was Mustafa who was in trouble at the Olympia (foreigner traveling to USA - who had to give away ALL of his food at the US customs and was left with not much money to purchase some food needed for the competition. Knowing Mustafa - he spent all his money getting some gifts for his kids instead of eating...).
He had some bad food in Vegas and started vomiting even before the show - which caused even more water and minerals to be lost...getting him in dehydrated state which put him in the hospital.
What people don't know is: that after I took him back from the hospital on Sunday morning - he rushed to the airport - but missed his flight!
So, he returned to Mandalay Bay were IFBB official's told him he would have a room for the extra day IF NEEDED. Well, when he returned nothing was organized - so he stayed extra day and got charged something like $600 for the room!
He had absolutely no money and fortunately guys from MUSCLETIME run into him in the lobby - and took him to restaurant (and gave him few bucks).
Mustafa than took the flight back to Austria (while still not completely recovered), dieted for two more days and took the flight to Amsterdam. As he was not back to normal - additional dehydration for the Dutch Grand Pr ix was even MORE dangerous - the rest is history.
I would discuss this issue with IFBB athlete representative (who was also hospitalized last year after the San Francisco)...to see what can be done so athletes would be safer. It can happen to ANY of us, we know it, IFBB official's know it...and we are just going with the flow - and not doing anything about it.
Should we isolate Mustafa - who is ONE OF THE VERY BEST BODYBUILDERS IN THE WORLD TODAY - and scare him that he would loose his IFBB pro card and his ALMOST LIFE TAKING Mr. Olympia qualification - just so IFBB officials would look good?
If they care for the athletes WHY don't they show it. I can give them tip or two - if they would just ask! Athletes make this sport - and should be threated accordingly.
32. (Quoting 31) Milos , no bashing or anything like that intended here but isn't that a little irresponsible , to travel to a foreign country without making sure that you have enough money just in case that you run in some problems ..? Huh
33. (Quoting 31) Maybe so, but before the "Athletes" are absolved from any blame or responsibility let's keep in mind that they have free will and should have the mental capacity to decide for themselves what to do with their own bodies and what risks they are prepared to take.
34. I think the problem is liability with the IFBB. There is always an element of risk when competing, and there is always a chance of someone getting hurt or cramps. The problem occurs when the athlete needs to be rushed to the hospital, where full reports and medical payments are applied. That athlete, while a pro, has gone too far by trying something different, and creates a bad 'aura' for the IFBB and pro bodybuilding. How can you promote something when your athletes are going to the hospital, and possibly dying.
It was wrong of Mr. Manion to accuse you without knowing all of the facts. With this detailed explanation, I am sure all will be resolved as to your involvement with the situation. As far as many see it, your knowledge and wisdom helped in saving a number of athlete's lives or health.
However, there are always two sides to every story.
35. milos, in your opininon did the testing for duiretics hurt the bodybuilding community than help it as now competitors use more dangerous drugs or cut their water out earlier in their shows to achive the best conditioning?
36. (Quoting 32) I always find it somewhat pathetic when bodybuilders expect sympathy when they are grown men making decisions for themselves (presumably ones which they feel are in their best interest, or else why are they be making them?).
37. (Quoting 32) Do you know that many people in Foreign Countries don't have financial stability we have (here in the USA).
If someone does not have much money (like Mustafa) and has to feed his family and than PAY FOR AIRFAIRE, HOTEL and all the other expenses ( just like this time in New York) - how do you think he can make sure that he has enough money?
Why do you think Pavol or Jaroslav Horvath didn't compete in New York?
Promotor would not pay for any expenses and they simply could not afford coming to New York, paying for hotel, cab, food etc...
I came to US (back in 1987) - with exactly $428.00 and tried to make a living...
38. (Quoting 37) I understand what you're saying, but there is little to no money in competitive bodybuilding unless you are top 5 or maybe top 10 in the world. Outside of the top 10, there are no guarantees.
That having been said, bodybuilders should never expect to earn income from competition - it just isn't realistic.
39. (Quoting 38) And why do you think that bodybuilders compete JUST for the money?
Many already know that even if they place second (which is almost impossible) they would get $4000.00...and that is nothing.
Many athletes that I know compete as they passionately love bodybuilding - and they would compete even if there is no prize money.
40. (Quoting 39) Which is exactly the right reason to compete. From the tone of your other post it sounded as though Mustafa is being reasonable to expect prize money for competitions to feed his family. It's wonderful if he competes in BB out of passion, but to rely on it to support his family is not a smart idea, because there is just not enough money in bodybuilding for that. Sad, but that is just how BB is.
41. (Quoting 37) Milos , I understand perfectly what you 're saying especially because I had to go through the same "process" myself , but that still doesn't justify risking everything ,including your life for nothing....Don't get me wrong , Mustafa is a great athlete and hopefully he'll get some recognition soon , and deservedly so I might add, but that doesn't change the fact that he was a little reckless not even taking in consideration that some things may not work as planned at home.. Lips sealed Again , this is just my opinion , and this being said I wish him all the best ! Dan
42. This really pisses me off! If the IFBB really cared about Mustafa then Milos would have been allowed back stage. They act like you are entering some kind of shrine by trying to get back stage. Roll Eyes and they always have. This is a case of the IFBB not wanting egg on their face , not about Mustafa's health. OK guys, we want you ripped to shreds and we don't care about how unhealthy you are but don't you dare get sick at one of our shows.
Getting dehydrated for a show is not an exact science no matter how knowledgable you are. This could and unfortunatley will happen again and can happen to anyone. Ronnie was very close to dropping at the 98 Olympia as well as countless others. The IFBB rewards the dry look therefore this is what the competitors will try to acheive. The sad thing is there are safer ways to acheive this kind of look but most guys have no clue as to how and go about it. Until the IFBB stops rewarding this look or someone lets the info out for free, this will happen again and I hate to say will end up with someone dying as a result.
Remember this, diuretics are far and away the number one threat to a bodybuilders health.
43. Steve Weinberger The IFBB's #1 concern is that the athletes stay healthy. Afterall, if athletes are dying; so will the sport! If an athlete repeatedly ends up in the hospital from over dehydration, he obviously is getting bad advise, or not learning anything from his mistakes. This is why Jim Manion issued the warning to Mustafa; if this is what it will take to save Mustafa's life, so be it.
Now, much of what Milos has said about the events of the last few contests involving Mustafa is incorrect. Milos stated that NO IFBB official went to the hospital in Las Vegas; however, this is not true. Both Jim Manion and Vince Scalisi went to the hospital and did not leave until Mustafas was out of danger. In Amersterdam, I stayed at the hospital until Mustafa again, was out of danger, and in fact, left in just enough time to catch the plane to London that morning. I was up all night.
All competing athletes were issued with a ticket for a guest, for both prejudging and finals, so if Mustafa had really needed you, he could have given you these tickets. Also, if you knew you were coming to the show, why didn't you call me about tickets?
Security stopped all non-authorized persons from going back stage, not just Milos. There were staff working backstage to assist all athletes. No individuals were permitted to bring their own assistants backstage. The reason for this was the large number of competing athletes.
You were told by the staff at the door that no athletes were allowed to have their own helpers, and yet you stood and argued the point, taking the time and attention of the workers. You also managed to change your story, and claim that you were sent by Flex magazine to photograph the event (which was not true). So if anyone behaved unprofessionally, it was you.
I will not get into a war of words. This is my only response to his accusations.
44. I dunno... rules are rules and all... but I have to imagine in ANY other sport, a famous former pro athlete would be ALLOWED to PURCHASE tickets to a pro event.
Can you imagine John Elway not being able to get tickets to a Broncos game?
45. Was it REAL LY necessary to turn Milos away regardless of the reason? Come on, if it could have helped the situation even in a small way then why not let him back stage? It must feel really demeaning for one of t he sports most recognized competitors to be turned away. Shame on you.
46. Cool of you to do some straight talking about contest prep, Milos. There are some bad habits with diuretics out there (heavy dose K-sparing only). This is not hardcore section so I wont go into detail, but doing diuretics demands knowledge about electrolytes otherwise it can go really bad (loop+ K-sparing or loop + K is the way to go). /B.
47. Number one concern is for the athletes to stay healthy? Yet Milos saved Mustafe, not once but twice from a heart attack and potentially DEATH. Yet the man that saved Mustafa's life (wouldn't saving a life be a health concern?) is turned away? Yeah.
Someone is lying here. And I don't think it's Milos. Milos took up some time of the security gaurds and lied? Don't you think this would be considered a "white lie," where someone won't get hurt if lied to? I'd say with a life on the line and the NUMBER ONE CONCERN of the IFBB not wanting the athlete to die would be worth a minute or two of Milos lying to get backstage. Wouldn't you, Steve? Mr. Manion? Why didn't Manion provide a response, afterall, he was the one that turned Milos away, correct?
48. You know, after reading what Milos has written here a few things concern me about bodybuilding. Ever since anabolic steroids arrived on the scene in the 1940's there has been an inner secret culture in bodybuilding. Those in the know tell a few select individuals but the mainstream trainees know bugger all about the drug scene. This is still true today and it amused me to read last year that Milos was a bit upset that Chad had some new trick or method to condition bodybuilders for contests but he wasn't revealing what that was.
If anyone is reading what Milos has written it is clear he is intelligent and informed. If that is true then he is as guilty as anyone of perpetuating a lot of the extremes in bodybuilding. He states that bodybuilders need that dry look to be competitive. I am not sure he is correct. However, if enough people believe this then that will become the reality. Goodness knows the IFBB seems to select judges that they can mould instead of individuals who speak up and vote according to what they personally assess and believe.
Now, where is all the medical and scientific research to support the practices of safely getting cut up for contests? They used to make jokes about some bodybuilders who had suitcases full of chemicals and even those guys sometimes got it wrong and came in holding water or whatever the description was. If bodybuilders are going to listen to Chad and Milos then good luck to everyone because that is a prescription for disaster. The formula should always be research your information, know what you are doing, then take responsibility for what you are doing. If it is true that you lack sufficient intelligence to decide what to do and therefore let someone else do your deciding for you then you deserve whatever you get. It might be okay to get the proper advice of a medical specialist but not some uneducated individual posing as an expert when in fact he has little or no standing whatsoever in his field. Plainly, to blindly follow extreme methods and drug protocols is both stupid and crazy.
I had a look at some of the photos from the recent New York contest. Most of the competitors look, well, not what I would call aesthetic. Many have downright ugly bodies and have no chance whatever of winning a major bodybuilding contest. If my assessment is correct then those with no chance are even sillier about doing all those crazy things because they are unlikely to be rewarded for their efforts.
One point to oppose what Milos said about presenting in dry condition on stage. Well, from what I have seen over and over is that many of the guys look much better a couple of weeks out from a contest. Whatever they do during those last days seems to reduce muscle volume and diminish the overall look. A case in point is Dorian Yates. His lifetime best appearance, in my opinion, was when he posed for photos in New York in that gym or basement. The photos where he is wearing his socks. He never looked that good on stage. Not even close. So I have no idea what is in the heads of modern bodybuilders. I hate to say it but the champions from the old days still look better than most of these guys.
I wonder if the IFBB has alerted ambulance services around the world about how to treat bodybuilders who have too much potassium and are dehydrated? Surely the medical community should be informed? We shouldn't have to have concerned individuals like Milos running after ambulances to make sure the bodybuilders get the correct treatment.
Hello to Steve Weinberger. Say Hi to Bev for me. Steve tells it like he sees it. After we had Bev and Steve stay at our house for a few days I told Steve that I will have somewhere to stay if I ever visit New York. His reply was funny but I think he was serious, he said, "Don't bother!" Imagine that after he slept on the king size bed and we had to use the couch!
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